Forum at Mandolin Cafe

iTunes LP editions at CD Baby

Above's the newest thread at CDBaby.org.

Some fellow named Carl claimed in a post that the company is for sale again, but Chris of CD Baby immediately squelched that rumor.

Online Music Distribution at IndieGuide.Com

Click the link above. . .I got this from Adrian over at Richy's blog. As Adrian points out, there's some good info here. Thank you for posting it!

Censorship at CDBaby.org?

Has censorship been quietly implemented at the CD Baby forums? It appears that any post of the "bitching and moaning" variety as well as any inquiries about individual problems and issues will be deleted by the front office staffers. (This is what the staffers have been saying for several weeks now.) But we've heard nothing from Brian Felsen in about two months, so the executive suite must feel that things are back to "normal."

Meanwhile, the "Google thread" has seen no action of late--almost as if "bitching and moaning" about the bungled relaunch is tacitly no longer permitted. Has anyone reading here tried to post anything over there only to see it deleted? Please comment here!

Audio Refugees: "CD Baby website redesign carnage"

Here's yet another blog linked above with more comment on the "relaunch."

Google Thread@CDBaby.Org

I've re-posted Chris's thread of Oct 29 since it has become the de facto current complaint line at cdbaby.org.

With no update from Brian Felsen in more than a month, this is the place to go if you still require frontline help@cdbaby.com

Rockin' with Joe Bear

I stumbled upon this fellow (linked above) while surfing through the CD Baby cyberspace trail. Some of you may find it of interest.

Is Hostbaby a Rip-off?

Let me just preempt Derek and his apologists by pointing out that this is a 3 1/2 year old criticism of Hostbaby, so possibly it's not relevant to today's relaunch debates, but I'm linking to this because I'm curious and want to know more:

1.) Did Derek sell Hostbaby to Discmakers as part of his sale of CDBaby.com?

2.) Is Hostbaby a subsidiary of CDBaby or is it a completely separate entity?

3.) Compared to other web hosting services, is Hostbaby--at $20 per month or $200 per year--a rip-off?

Leave your questions & comments here. . .

Discussion at Cubase.net

Click the link above to see comments including some apparently from Derek. . .

Are Things Back to "Normal" at CD Baby?

With no updates from Brian Felsen since way back on October 13, and with a highly notable decline in complaints and posts at cdbaby.org (around 250 in almost three weeks), have things finally got back to "normal", however we might define that, nearly four months into this bug-plagued website relaunch?

Most of us would hope so! There are definite signs that DD sales are back on track, and I've heard rumors that CD Baby has resumed email notification of artist payments. Can anyone reading here confirm this?

While the frontline staff seems to have addressed the hundreds of individual glitches of complaining artists in a satisfactory manner, I can personally attest that, since Derek sold the company to Discmakers in 2008, sales of physical discs have flattened or plummeted. Is this because the new search functionalities are apparently useless to us? Is it more difficult for the casual browsing customer to find, and therefore buy, our music? Based upon no scientific evidence but plenty of anecdotal comment, my guess to that is yes.

If CD Baby is now back to "normal" for most or all of us, then I'm happy for the company and its couple hundred thousand artists. But now I am faced with the problem I had back in July: mustering up the energy & will to visit my account and relearn to navigate its confusing myriad of virtual hallways and rooms. I didn't like what was offered in July, and I doubt that I will like it much better today. As I have often stated before, it's tons easier (and more fun!) to administer this blog than it is to visit my artist account. Before July 2009 I visited CD Baby everyday for just a few minutes. Now I visit this blog every day, again just for a few minutes.

Given the choice, I'd still rather be visiting CD Baby than running this blog. But the pessimist in me suggests that it's far too soon to expect that this will be the case. Any thoughts on this? Leave your comments here. . .

Chris@CDBaby on Redesigned Hits Counter

Here's the latest nugget from Chris at CDBaby.org which caught my eye:

". . .Derek programmed the old hits counter to tally bot hits from search engines (Google, Yahoo, etc.). . ." (The old hits counter) "also credited spam bots as actual valid hits."

Furthermore, Chris wrote: ". . .when our IT team redesigned the hits counter they made sure it only tallied up valid hits from real actual people."

This, Chris explains, is the reason many artists are seeing fewer hits on their counters since the function was recently restored by popular demand.

Just thought I'd pass that along. . .

Derek's New Venture

Years in the drawing board stages, Derek Sivers's new baby is being slowly unveiled. Check out the link above for more info.

Can we get Brian & Tony to hire an EMT Team Google and/or Derek & Muckwork to join the overworked and underfed CD Baby techs and frontofficers as consultants?

The irony of it kills me--I'm falling out of my chair: Derek cashes out (good for him!) to Discmakers which runs the Baby into the ground. CorinthianCap, now desperate to get a return on its investment, hires Derek to come back and make things better.

I'm dreaming, I know. . .

Why Did Sivers Sell Out? Here's A Clue

This is kind of interesting, so check it out if you haven't already.

Thanks to the fellow over at cdbaby.org who posted it.

Felsen Reports "DD News"

Brian's latest from a couple days ago is hyperlinked above. . .

New Poll Revised--Vote Now!

By request I've re-tooled the new poll to account for "longer term" commitment in the wait for "CD Baby to get its act together," so please feel free to vote (or re-vote, as the case may be).

Primarily I'm wondering how patient we are now (after two months plus of relaunch), while looking ahead to the next six months or so & beyond.

Thank you for your suggestions on how to make this site better for all. . .

Velvet Rope: "CD Baby--stick a fork in it?"

Comment on yet another forum is linked above. . .

Harmony Central: CD Baby "is incomprehensibly f****d up"

Heated comment on another forum, linked above. . .

Felsen: Improved Accounting & August iTunes

Brian Felsen's "weekly" update finally arrived this morning. Click it above. . .

I almost missed it while stumbling upon another Felsen post "Share Your Holiday Promotional Ideas!" At first I thought the "holiday" post was his only contribution in two weeks, so I was about to write a sarcastic piece about all the fluffy stuff we've been seeing over there:

"FiXT Launches New Remix Community & Celldweller"

"2009 International Songwriting Competition"

"Future of Music Coalition Policy Summit--CD Baby Artist Discount" and

"Be on a Tribute Album w/members of Twisted Sister, Cinderella, Quiet Riot + more"

Almost without exception, these threads have drawn only derisive comments from CD Baby artists. One of the above threads was beginning to turn into an all-out flame war.

But is it really any wonder that people are inflamed these days? Though it's been about 10 weeks since relaunch, on the world wide web 10 weeks is an eternity. It certainly "seems" like it's been more like six months or a year of this disaster (brought to us by CD Baby) than only two months or so. And that's why it "feels" somewhat ridiculous to have to wait for another 10 weeks (or a half a year, or more) for the Baby to get its pathetic act together.

Nevertheless, thanks, Brian, for the fortnightly update, even if it hasn't much reduced rampant speculation on the forum and elsewhere--speculation which is a direct result of your apparently deliberate policy of allowing only the driest trickle of information to emanate from your office.

81% Here Say Sales Are Down

As you can see, my latest mini-poll indicates that most voters' sales are down at CD Baby since "re-launch."

Lately, cdbaby.org has been heating up with lots of opinionating on this mess. In fact we're seeing a lot more vigorous debate than usual over there, for the first time in a while, with Chris of CD Baby fielding things remarkably well.

Sure, the tanking economy of 2008-09 has something to do with plummeting sales, but as Adrian has pointed out here and there, CD Baby hasn't helped things for us by disabling the search and "sounds like" functions, and--even worse--destroying our own links to our own CD Baby pages!

And WTF is up with iTunes anyway? For many, maybe most, of us, this was our prime income stream from CD Baby. You would think that this major DD company would be totally unaffected by the Baby's troubles, but apparently not. On this issue Chris's and others' explanations are becoming tiresome--they sound more and more like some sort of "party line." No wonder people are fuming.

Luc Sez: "Time to Pony Up!"

I love this guy! He has a good way with words.

Do I sense the pressure's on (CD Baby) in the blogosphere?

CDBaby@Wikipedia

This updated entry at Wikipedia has good info about the technical side of the relaunch . . .

Moses Muses on State of CD Baby

Check out this piece from Sept 2008 for musings on Derek's sale to Discmakers and his relations with Tony van Veen. . .

Luc weighs in on CD Baby's mess

Check it out. . .

Pony's Back?!

But what does it mean? I think he's obviously a loyal CD Baby employee who, even if the executive suite doesn't have a clue, is still committed to the "core values" of the old CD Baby which he referred to here a couple months back. His may be a voice in the wilderness, however.

That Pony is meeting with the bigshots at Discmakers is perhaps encouraging--possibly the dupe giant crunched some numbers and noticed "consequences" to its bottom line? After all, one of the recently unveiled "new" services since the bungled launch is an instant duplication service. Certainly I would be hesitant to use anything associated with the new Baby until we can see where the chips fall. So with CD sales absolutely flat since Derek sold out ("bought in"?) in 2008, who would want to stock the Portland warehouse with more?

It's very difficult in this era to remain uncynical about the bigger fish in the capitalist pond. Maybe I'm better off investing in shares of Corinthian Capital because I sense that CD Baby eventually will turn around and start making big bucks again--by screwing its massive artist base!

So until we see results of the kind Pony has urged us to continue waiting for, realistically I don't feel all that encouraged.

Eight weeks ago I dropped a comment at cdbaby.org pointing out that for a technophobe like me, it was a helluva lot easier to build this blog than it was to navigate around the "improved" CD Baby website. I appealed to executives to hire someone to read Jeff Jarvis's book What Would Google Do? (check out his blog BuzzMachine.Com, linked here under "other resources"). Or, failing that, call Google and ask them to send an EMT unit to Portland immediately!

I still feel the same way because this new website is so unfriendly and unnavigable as to be virtually useless to me. CD Baby needs to take some lessons from Google. And I think heads need to roll as well. Whether it's a totally new management team or a new tech team supervised by consultants from Google, how 'bout hiring some new faces upstairs and show us that you're serious about relaunching this awful relaunch?

Felsen: Hits Counter Returns!

Check out yesterday's update. Don't know about you, but I can't get excited about "Hits Counter Returns!" Why did they have to drop it in the first place?

It's all too typical of these Web 2.0 "renovations." Ditch perfectly good features, then claim that you're giving us a new and "improved" version. Arrgghhhhhh. . . .

Please stop doing things that way!

Moses Article Analyzed by Luc

Here's the original piece that Luc analyzed. . .

Brian Felsen's Latest

Here's yesterday's update from CD Baby's president. For the record, he says he's still sorry about everything. . .For the record, so am I!

New Links to the Competition

Check out WaTunes and TarniusMusic, both of which I've finally linked at "the competition" on the lower left. Also check out The Indie Show.Com.

As always, this blog doesn't endorse any companies but accepts all reviews from readers. . .

More on "this Moses fellah"

This is Luc's thought-provoking analysis of a recent Moses article. . .

Moses Avalon Comments

Derek Sivers has requested that I disable the link to the 2003 Moses Avalon article, and I have reluctantly agreed to do so.

Before I explain why, I'd like to offer a little about my own background and my reasons for starting this blog. Although I have nearly 30 years behind me as a professional musician, these days I consider myself to be more of a semi-retired indie performer who is currently much more involved in music education. I have been a CD Baby artist since 2004 with just a couple discs on its pages, but have had only modest sales there, and until July 2009 I've had only the most tangential interest in CD Baby and its connection to the rapidly changing music industry. All I've really known is that CD Baby was a great company, and I was proud to be on its roster.

So I come to this debate with a remarkable amount of ignorance. I have spent many hours the past five or so years reading current books about e-commerce, the internet, and the music industry, but have to admit to still being pretty much stuck back in the last century. Although I hate to admit it, I don't own a computer, and I don't have easy access to the internet, but even if I did, I don't really have the time to do thorough internet research about the many issues that pop up in the course of this, or any other, internet debate.

So when an anonymous reader of this blog provides a link to an article, my tendency is to link to it first and foremost because I know that even if I'm the most ignorant person out there,I can be sure that there are others who may be just as ignorant, and who would be interested in any information that comes up.

I want to note, too, that my research on an item is necessarily a kind of playing catch-up: I can do so only when I can get access to a borrowed computer, or one at the library or at a cybercafe.

Accordingly, I have done some belated research on the Josh Melville/Moses Avalon vs Derek Sivers internet spat. And I came to the conclusion that any reasonable person could read about both sides of that debate (which was about CD Baby's deal with Apple iTunes) and come to their own conclusions--as many people did on several threads that I found over many internet forums. This is why I was reluctant to de-link to the Avalon piece. The reason I did so is because one of my anonymous posters provided what I felt was an apropos quote from the piece plus its url. For those, like me, who wish to read entire piece, I refer you to the first July thread in this blog and the recent comment by the poster.

I have zero interest in internet catfights, and I don't consider myself to be an internet "journalist," muckraking or otherwise. But the reason I started this blog is partly because of my own ignorance about the current state of the indie music industry. Although Derek may be right when he says the Avalon piece has nothing to do with the disastrous CD Baby relaunch, I believe that anything from the historical record may be germane to the discussion. For people who are worried that the new CD Baby is going the way of MP3.com, and for those like me who are only now learning about what's been happening the past half dozen years, the Avalon piece is highly relevant. Again, reasonable people can make their own judgements. And some people might not kneejerk react: "Avalon--scumbag! Derek--God!" Reasonable people know that Derek's not a god and Melville/Avalon probably isn't a total scumbag either.

I started this blog only because I saw a need for a central clearing house of sorts for information. Several posters to this blog have posted bits and pieces of info, and it seems that most of them have done their homework. For that I am grateful because my homework is necessarily tardy.

But I don't detect, in the few readers/posters of this blog, much sign of ax-grinding or internet sniping. So I will continue to post anything people here provide, including Derek's rebuttal to "Avalon", if it ever comes.

Unpaid Artists at Sound Exchange

I've changed the link above so you can go direct to the "unpaid artists" page.

Better Late Than Never!

Brian has just released what he calls a "weekly update" over at CDBaby.Org.

Never mind that the last "weekly update" was a fortnight ago! Better late than never, I guess.

Maybe we should thank him for finally starting a new thread. ("Thank you, Brian!") At 800 plus posts of the usual "Help me with my emergency, Cd Baby" and "Email us at help@cdbaby.com and we'll get to work on it right away, we love you", the last one was getting a wee bit long, wasn't it?

Anybody wanna bet on when's the next one? Vote in the poll to the left. . .

Forum at Sivers.Org

Also, lately there's been much comment at one of the threads on Sivers.Org, linked above.

This is especially interesting if you've been wondering what little Derek has had to say about the current CD Baby tragedy.

"CD Baby is Dead!"

More CD Baby discussion at LiveJournal.Com above.

Click it & weep. . .

CD Baby Artists & the War on Terror

Click the link and check out one of the many subsidiaries of CD Baby's creepy owner, Corinthian Capital.

CD Baby artists support the global war on terror! Yea!

Post your comments here . . .

64% Say CD Baby STILL Sucks!

I'll be the first to admit that 64% of 17 votes in one of my latest polls hardly counts as any sort of scientific evidence, but that is the figure you came up with. Five and a half weeks into the "re-launch" voters on this blog are saying "CD Baby STILL Sucks!" Oh, well. . .

Thursday Update from Brian

Click it and read it (if you're not yet bored with the whole five week long saga). . .

Does CD Baby Still Suck?

In one of my earliest polls, 48% of 20 or so voters selected "Yes!" when asked: "Does CD Baby suck or not?" That 48% was a clear majority when compared to all other possible answers

In my newest poll, you can see another clear majority has voted "Definitely!" to the question: "Does CD Baby still suck?"

Wow. . .does no one see any improvements? Post your comments here!

IndieDIY: If you broke it when it wasn't broke... you'd best fix it better than it ever was!

IndieDIY: If you broke it when it wasn't broke... you'd best fix it better than it ever was!

Ready for Action? Check Out CDBabyLawsuit.com

Click the link above and join forces!

As always, you can comment pro or con here. . .

August 14 Update from Brian

Here it is, and feel free to comment below. . .

This Weekend´s Update from Brian

JUST KIDDING! ´cos so far, on Friday morning, there isn´t one.

Maybe the back office feels confident enough with the "re-launch" that they only need to do weekly updates now.

Or maybe, one month into this fiasco, everything is "going as planned," to paraphrase one poster here.

I don´t know about you, but reading the forum just makes me feel ill and "not right" with the state of the world today.

Plus there´s the fact that on the forum, it´s the same old story, maybe with different names, but with similar to same problems.

As someone else posted here: it might be nice to hear from Pony again. . .if he hasn´t been fired already.

With so little information coming out from the top, it´s difficult not to resist a kind of paranoid, pro-conspiratorial thinking when the Big Shot owners (CorinthianCap) of Discmakers and the Baby look like one of those mammothly funded asset strippers who come in with the bucks, re-tool everything, and make everything ready to turn over, with a gigantic profit, of course, to yet another group of "investors." We´ve seen it happen in the Wall Street economy many times before. I think we can presume that the Big Money guys indeed do not give a hoot about the CD Baby artist(s).

If Brian does post an announcement today, I´ll try to post it here as well. But at this point, anything from the top will just seem to feel anticlimactic. . .

Last Weekend´s Update from Brian

Read it and comment here. . .

Links to the Competiton (part 2)

Please note there are a few new links added to the lower left. I want to state that I have not had the time to research any of these companies, and will post these only if you mention them on this blog, so I cannot endorse any of these options. I'm posting this stuff only to further everyone's common knowledge.

I want to request that you post those links and any comments you have about them on Links to the Competiton (part 2) so I can easily get to them. Also, I will post links to any sites of general interest to us under the heading Other Resources. Check below for links to AMG & Artists First.

Please read the critiques/comments regarding new links Zimbalam, RecordUnion & DittoMusic in the comments section of Customer Urges 'Time Out' below.

Thanks. . .

Tuesday Update from Brian

Click the link above, and feel free to post your comments here. . .

Monday Update from Brian

JUST KIDDING!  'Cos there wasn't one.

It's unbelievable that this company, in the midst of this crisis, would let more than 72 hours pass without comment from the head honchos.  So the tension builds up on the forum (the only part of the website that seems to work without glitches), rumors fly, and artists begin to attack each other.

When management is silent, speculation fills the information vacuum.

As some one pointed out, no doubt tongue in cheek, they have "three people" working round the clock to answer a "handful" of "axe grinders and whiners."

I've got to hand it to the frontline.  They are performing well!  But upstairs?  We hear nothing but recaps that there will be "no rollback."  Fine.  But what of the medium to long term outlook?

Are heads beginning to roll over there?  Is it a "palace coup"?  Or is it true that these guys take three day weekends in Aruba, even in a shit storm such as this.

 

PAYDAY! or is it?

Post a comment here:  did you get paid, or didn't you?

Crushing Krisis Article

Read on. . .

Customer Urges "Time Out"

by A Customer on Saturday August 01 2009 @ 09:17AM PDT [ reply parent ]
While I don't agree in locking down these forums in any way, I do believe that many of the more aggressive posts here are indeed fake, potentially posted by the competition in an attempt to fan the flames and take advantage of this great opportunity for themselves. If CD Baby truly did mean that much to you, why do you want to see it destroyed? Why post threats? I'm ashamed by some of the attitudes on here. Are these really the artists I am supporting when I shop at CD Baby? Yes, this is a really, really bad situation, no doubt about that. But CD Baby has been there for us (both the artists and customers) for years and years. Why abandon them over a, comparatively speaking - short, rocky transition that was forced upon them? Wouldn't it be better to SAVE CD Baby? Instead of all this negativity, why not work together to help pull out of this mess? I want CD Baby to survive, because they have been good to us - really good to us. It doesn't help any of us to drag them down. Pony & the rest of the folks at CD Baby. Please hang in there. I'm pulling for you. And for the record, I have NO complaints for you, rather - you have my undying gratitude for all you are doing.

Friday Update from Brian

Friday Update (iTunes Australia, uploader, accounting, etc.)
posted by Brian at CD Baby on Friday July 31 2009 @ 12:50PM PDT
We’ll still be here through the weekend working on the new site, but we wanted to do a quick update on Friday knowing that many of you will be putting the internet away for a couple days. Firstly, payments from iTunes Australia have been reported and are viewable in your accounting. Money for those sales has been added to the balance we owe you and will be paid out when that balance goes above your chosen paypoint. We’ve received some feedback on the uploader that artists would like to know right off the bat whether or not their image will upload. While it is not in place quite yet, we’re working so that you’ll know immediately if your art uploaded correctly, and if not, it will tell you the exact reason for the failure. In the meantime, I wanted to note a tip that has worked for all the artists who are having issues with their photos. If your photo is even a pixel or 2 off, which can happen to anyone, it won't upload correctly. If this happens (meaning, you don't see your artist photo on the website even 3 hours after you've uploaded it), you should resave your photo, setting the size to 200 x 200 pixels (or larger as long as the picture is perfectly square). You can do this with any photo editing software or at a website like www.picresize.com. Then upload this newly saved and resized version. Also, if you were one of the few artists experiencing a glitch that displayed incorrect balances in their accounting sections, that has been corrected and we really apologize for the confusion. We’re continuing to make improvements to the website on a daily basis, and again we apologize for any frustration this has caused you. As always, feel free to write us at help@cdbaby.com with any problems you’re experiencing on our site. Please be as detailed as possible in your email so that our IT and customer service teams can help you quickly and prevent the issue from happening in the future.

Best,

Brian Felsen, CD Baby President

Derek as "Consultant"?

Since Pony left his comment here and at cdbaby.org, it appears that Derek has come out of the woodwork to weigh in for the debate. Or, at least, some people seem to hope so. For my part, I've been wondering for quite awhile if we ever would hear from him. Naturally, he may feel that it isn't his place to opinionate at this time. But mightn't it be excellent PR for this beleagured company if our old buddy were to make some sort of dramatic reappearance?

Do I hear John Williams-esque music in the background? If so, are we still in Fantasyland? We can't rule it out.

Of course, skeptics are right to point out that anyone can submit "pseudononymous" posts, and that's true here as well as there. Up til now we've heard barely a peep from Mr. Sivers, or at most, a terse "no comment." Despite how he may feel about this wacky relaunch, he's probably correct to stay mum: it is, after, "not his business" anymore . . .

Links to the Competition

Very interesting comment so far. Thanks for posting parts of two articles below in CDBaby Relaunch Debate.

Check out the links on the lower left for "the competition." If you mention any site, I'll link to them there.

The DD (non) payments truly are a puzzle, it seems. My income has always come in dribs and drabs, but I sell a lot more thru iTunes than I ever have of compact discs. On a fairly consistent basis, however, I've managed to earn enough to pay for my Starbucks habit (where I get to pick up the "free" iTune of the week and wonder why I'm never featured!).

Now my barista asks me why I rarely go see her anymore; I tried telling her, "it's only business. . .or lack thereof "

CDBaby Relaunch Debate

Welcome to CDBaby Relaunch Debate, an independent forum for anyone interested in the current controversy regarding CDBaby's recent bug-filled launch of its "new" website.